Serena O. Dankwa and spoken word poet and performer Fatima Moumouni discuss the paradox of security: its creation often relies on (the threat of) violence, punishment, or military presence, which only secures safety for some, while instilling fear in others.

They explore abolitionist theories that reject violent security measures, despite accusations of naivety. Moumouni argues for utopian thinking as opposed to conservative, fear-driven policies that preserve the status quo. Both highlight the need for courage to imagine alternatives – like restorative justice – and to embrace uncertainty during transitions. Moumouni quotes James Baldwin, framing any “real change” as relinquishing old certainties for greater freedoms. The dialogue invites us to rethink security and imagine safety beyond technologies of fear and control.

The interview is in German. You can download both German and translated English transcripts below.

Author: Serena O. Dankwa

References and Further Reading

Baldwin, J. (1961). Nobody Knows My Name: More Notes of A Native Son. Dial Press.

Loick, D. & Thompson, V. E. (2022). Was ist Abolitionismus? In D. Loick & V.E. Thompson (Eds.), Abolitionismus: Ein Reader., p. 7-58. Suhrkamp Verlag.

Vitale, A. S. (2019). The Limits of Police Reform. In W. S. DeKeseredy & E. Currie (Eds.), Progressive Justice in an Age of Repression. Routledge. (English original of A.S. Vitale’s chapter.)

Vitale, A. S. (2022). Grenzen der Polizeireform. In D. Loick & V.E. Thompson (Eds.), Abolitionismus: Ein Reader., p. 191-251. Suhrkamp Verlag. (German translation of A.S. Vitale’s chapter.)

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